Subject: [big campaign] NSN VP Debate National Security Fact Check
From: Adam Blickstein <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 22:33:45 -0400
List-Id: <bigcampaign.googlegroups.com>

Summarzing the VP Foreign Policy Questions<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fsummarzing-the.html&id=preview>
Posted by Ilan Goldenberg
1.  Palin mispronounced our commander in Afghanistan, Dave McKiernan's  name and also claimed that he supported the idea of using the Iraq surge as a model for Afghanistan even though just yesterday he said he did not.
2.  In response to a question on Iran and Pakistan Palin answered by starting to talk about Iraq.  Similar to McCain's obsession on Iraq with complete neglect for all other national security priorities.
3.  Palin promised that the Middle East peace process would be a top priority for a McCain administration.  But McCain's own advisors last week said that it wouldn't.
4.  Palin was unable to distinguish any specific difference between Bush and McCain on any foreign policy issues.  Joe Biden made that point very clearly.
5.  Sarah Palin seems to rely quite heavily on her notes and on a very limited set of talking points.  She has been dodging questions all night long.

Does Palin understand the meaning of deterrent?
Posted by The Editors

This is a post from NSN intern Eric Auner

Palin just said that nuclear weapons are currently being used as a deterrent. The only problem is that this was said in response to a question on the circumstances under which the weapons would actually be fired. The meaning of the deterrent is that they might, at some point, be fired. If you are unclear about what that point is, then the deterrent is meaningless.

October 02, 2008 at 10:03 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fdoes-palin-unde.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fdoes-palin-unde.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fdoes-palin-unde.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Best Foreign Policy Moment of the Debate
Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

Biden asks how is McCain's policy any different on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan...  He is right there has been no clear difference on any of these issues.

October 02, 2008 at 10:02 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fbest-foreign-po.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fbest-foreign-po.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fbest-foreign-po.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Petraeus and McKiernan say no surge in Afghanistan
Posted by Max Bergmann

This week General McKiernan,<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F10%2F01%2FAR2008100100789.html%3Fhpid%3Dmoreheadlines&id=preview> the top commander in Afghanistan, and General David Petraeus<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F10%2F01%2Fworld%2Fasia%2F01petraeus.html%3F_r%3D1%26ref%3Dworld%26pagewanted%3Dprint%26oref%3Dslogin&id=preview> made an obvious point: "Afghanistan is not Iraq."

Both insisted that the challenges in Afghanistan are very different than the ones in Iraq and therefore require a very different strategy and approach. McKiernan said "What I don't think is needed - the word I don't use in Afghanistan is the word surge" and General Petraeus explained that every situation is "unique." This is in stark contrast to the approach advocated by Senator McCain, who has insisted on applying the same "surge" plan that was adopted in Iraq to Afghanistan.

At last Friday's debate McCain said, "the same strategy that he [Obama] condemned in Iraq. It's going to have to be employed in Afghanistan." In July, McCain said "the surge in Iraq shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan." It is not surprising that McCain would mistakenly conflate Iraq and Afghanistan, since he and his fellow conservatives have paid little attention to the war in Afghanistan. McCain didn't offer his "surge" plan for Afghanistan until late this summer and at the Republican National Convention last month, no major speaker even mentioned the word Afghanistan. As the situation continues to deteriorate in Afghanistan, the United States needs to adopt the comprehensive plan that progressives have been advocating the past few years.

October 02, 2008 at 10:01 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpetraeus-and-mc.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpetraeus-and-mc.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpetraeus-and-mc.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Israel on the Back Burner
Posted by Patrick Barry

Governor Palin claimed that promoting an Arab-Israeli peace deal would be at the top of the agenda for John McCain's administration.  It's fine, even laudable to make a claim like that, but when it directly conflicts with statements from one of your key advisors, Max Boot, who just said a few weeks ago<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jta.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fiowa%2Fnews%2Fprint%2F2008092220080922bootdanzig.html&id=preview> that bringing peace to Israel would not be a big priority for McCain, you begin to wonder about who controls the policy in John McCain's camp.

October 02, 2008 at 10:00 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fisrael-on-the-b.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fisrael-on-the-b.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fisrael-on-the-b.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Not different
Posted by Max Bergmann

Biden hits the mark. McCain's foreign policies are no different than Bush. In the rare cases that they are, such on North Korea<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boston.com%2Fnews%2Fnation%2Farticles%2F2008%2F09%2F19%2Fmccain_could_be_tougher_than_bush_with_nkorea%2F&id=preview>, they are more extreme.

October 02, 2008 at 09:58 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fnot-different.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fnot-different.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fnot-different.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Meetings
Posted by James Lamond

If Barack Obama's decision to meet with Iran, North Korea, and Cuba is so dangerous and naive, then how does she explain the Bush administration's current negotiations with North Korea, and both Republican and Democrat Secretaries of State saying we should negotiate with Iran:

 *     Henry Kissinger, Jim Baker, Colin Powell, Madeleine Albright and Warren Christopher all agree we need direct talks with Iran without pre-conditions.  Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State under Presidents Nixon and Ford, not only indicated that he "was in favor of negotiating with Iran," but said that such negotiations should occur "without conditions," and should begin at a high level."  Former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright advised that "You need to engage with countries you have problems with," and said "I believe we need to engage with Iran."  Colin Powell, Secretary of State under George W. Bush echoed the need for negotiations stating: "Let's get together and talk about nuclear weapons."  [AP, 9/15/08.  ABC News, 9/15/08.  Reuters, 9/16/08.]

 *   The Bipartisan Iraq Study Group believes the US should have direct talks with Iran. "Given the ability of Iran and Syria to influence events within Iraq and their interest in avoiding chaos in Iraq, the United States should try to engage them constructively. In seeking to influence the behavior of both countries, the United States has disincentives and incentives available." [Iraq Study Group, 12/06]

 *   Even the Bush administration is moving toward Senator Obama's strategy of diplomatic engagement with Iran.  The Bush Administration is beginning to embrace a number of foreign policy positions favored by Senator Obama.  "On a range of major foreign policy issues over the past year, Bush has pursued strategies and actions very much along the lines of what Sen. Obama has advocated during his presidential race."  "On the diplomatic front, Obama has made a point of advocating dialogue with Iran" and though he has been vilified by conservatives for it, "in July, Bush sent a high-level U.S. emissary to attend nuclear talks with Iran" In June, the Washington Post reported that "Senior officials at the State Department and beyond are mulling a proposal to open an interest section in Tehran, similar to the one the United States has operated in Havana since 1977."  [Washington Post, 9/15/08. Washington Post, 6/23/08]

October 02, 2008 at 09:54 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fmeetings.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fmeetings.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fmeetings.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Talking to allies
Posted by Max Bergmann

Palin just said that her and John McCain were in favor of diplomacy. But what does that mean? Does McCain agree with Kissinger's position which is in favor of talking at the Secretary of State level with the Iranians? McCain and Palin say they do and then they attack Obama and Biden for wanting to talk to the Iranians. They are all over the place.

The fact is that the McCain-Palin position of continuing the George Bush policy is indefensible and will only result in a nuclear armed Iran.

Continue reading "Talking to allies" ><http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Ftalking-to-alli.html%23more&id=preview>

October 02, 2008 at 09:52 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Ftalking-to-alli.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Ftalking-to-alli.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Ftalking-to-alli.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Iraq on the Brain
Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

Palin gets asked about Pakistan and Iran and can't help but start with Iraq.

October 02, 2008 at 09:50 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Firaq-on-the-bra.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Firaq-on-the-bra.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Firaq-on-the-bra.html%23trackback&id=preview>

Palin Supports Debunked McCain Plan for Afghanistan
Posted by Patrick Barry

Palin just repeated John McCain's claim that the surge strategy from Iraq could be successfully implemented in Afghanistan.  Yet in the past two days alone, the two members of the military working more closely on Afghanistan than anyone fundamentally disagreed with the McCain-Palin plan:

U.S. Commanders rebuff McCain's vision for the war in Afghanistan. Speaking in Washington yesterday General David McKiernan, head of the NATO-led coalition in Afghanistan and former head of ground forces in Iraq, rejected McCain's plan for Afghanistan.  McKiernan argued that more troops "are urgently required to combat a worsening insurgency, but he stated emphatically that no Iraq-style 'surge' of forces will end the conflict there."  While McCain has often said that he wants to apply the same surge strategy in Afghanistan as in Iraq, the commanding general clearly stated "Afghanistan is not Iraq." General David Petraeus, now the head of CENTCOM and former commander in Iraq said, "People often ask, 'What did you learn from Iraq that might be transferable to Afghanistan?'The first lesson, the first caution really, is that every situation like this is truly and absolutely unique, and has its own context and specifics and its own texture." [Washington Post, 10/2/08<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2008%2F10%2F01%2FAR2008100100789.html%3Fhpid%3Dmoreheadlines&id=preview>. New York Times, 10/1/08<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F10%2F01%2Fworld%2Fasia%2F01petraeus.html%3F_r%3D1%26ref%3Dworld%26pagewanted%3Dprint%26oref%3Dslogin&id=preview>]

Afghanistan's strategic puzzle will not be solved by a surge in troops alone. NATO-ISAF commander General David McKiernan outlined Afghanistan's many challenges that cannot be addressed purely by an influx of troops: "A country that has very harsh geography. It's very difficult to move around, getting back to our reliance on helicopters. It's a country with very few natural resources, as opposed to the oil revenues that [Iraq] has. There's very little money to be generated in terms of generated in Afghanistan. The literacy rate - you have a literate society in Iraq, you have a society that has a history of producing civil administrators, technocrats, middle class that are able to run the country in Iraq. You do not have that in Afghanistan. So there are a lot of challenges. What I don't think is needed - the word that I don't use in Afghanistan is the word 'surge.' There needs to be a sustained commitment of a variety of military and non-military resources, I believe."  Today's piece in the New York Times, covering Afghanistan's debilitating opium trade, which funds insurgents and produces instability, further demonstrates why a military solution alone will not be sufficient in Afghanistan.  [General David McKiernan, Washington Independent, 10/1/08<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwashingtonindependent.com%2F9710%2Fsen-mccain-meet-gen-mckiernan&id=preview>.  NY Times, 10/02/08<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2008%2F10%2F02%2Fworld%2Fasia%2F02military.html%3F_r%3D1%26ref%3Dworld%26oref%3Dslogin&id=preview>]

October 02, 2008 at 09:49 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpalin-supports.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpalin-supports.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fpalin-supports.html%23trackback&id=preview>

No plan
Posted by Max Bergmann

McCain has never laid out a plan for how to bring the troops home. McCain has said he wants to have an indefinite presence in Iraq (remember the 100 years comment) but has never said at what point he will bring the troops home. He has never defined what he means by "victory" and has never said how that would be achieved. All McCain has said that he would stay the course.
October 02, 2008 at 09:44 PM | Permalink<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fno-plan.html&id=preview> | Comments (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fno-plan.html%23comments&id=preview> | TrackBack (0)<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=usvycscab.0.0.olnitxbab.0&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democracyarsenal.org%2F2008%2F10%2Fno-plan.html%23trackback&id=preview>

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